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I Have Done It All: One Pilot's Thoughts And An Eve Career

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Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.02 22:56:00 - [1] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 02/03/2011 22:56:57 Epic fleet fights, PVP Instructor, Professional Recruiter, Carebear, NRDS, NBSI -10 pirate, Corp Leader, + 1,000 Man Alliance Leader, Mercenary, Asshat, Griefer and at present I perform asset denial along side the corporations that fly under the banner of The Orphanage. . . . Lately, real life has kept me so busy that I have had almost no time to play EVE for nearly a month. This forced break has caused me to reflect on where I have been, where I am and where I might be going. To summarize this and prevent this post from becoming just another incoherent ramble from a jaded vet, I will instead just summarize my thoughts as clearly and simply as possible. No matter where I was, what I was doing or what I was trying to accomplish in game, there was one constant . . . people just don't want to fight unless they have a gross advantage. There is no mechanism in the game that rewards combat. There is no reason for a fleet to stay at a modest 7-10 size and not get any bigger short of not having enough people online. There is no reason not to stay docked and wait for sheer, mind numbing boredom to deter your aggressor There are subtle checks and balances all over this game--Time sinks (in Travel, Market, Manufacturing) ever balancing game mechanics (in Weapons, Ship Speed, Resists), risk vs reward opportunities (sanctums, Sleepers, Plexes), but for the small group of close friends there is NO ACTUAL reason to PVP... This "sand box" environment that is marketed as "Make Our Own Destiny In A Dark Universe" has missed something very important in their attempts to fashion one of the greatest Sci-Fi simulators of our time. You CAN'T make your own destiny if everyone else refuses to play with you. . . . Now, I am not talking about picking on noobs, carebears or whatever else the mindless flamers on these forums may imagine in their tired, tiny and semi-delusional little minds--I am in fact talking about the exact opposite. I am talking about game play as a whole inside of a PVP based sci-fi simulator. 1.) There is no benefit to not staying docked and there is simply no reason to fight. If you simply refuse to play it costs you nothing, your corp nothing and your alliance nothing (unless you're interested in Blob warfare and fleets numbering in the hundreds. Half the people who play this game are not.) 2.) Because there are no in game mechanics supporting PVP in this game, PVP tends to be more about looking for people who are making a mistake (jumping through a gate alone, flying a hauler, running a mission during war, not looking at local) then it is actually PVP'ing other people who want to PVP with you. Reasonably equal numbers. Reasonably equal ship types. An environment where skill can meet skill and it ACTUALLY matters who wins. ^^^^^ I have had sooooo few fights like that, it's sad and TBH It gets frustrating CCP added incursions in order to generate an in game reason for people to work together... Well, what about the heart and soul of this game? A reason for people to go out there and actually face each other (as in the random player) and have some fun in the process?
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.02 23:24:00 - [2] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 02/03/2011 23:27:24 No that is not how everyone works, plenty of people I know prefer otherwise. Regarding RvB, the last fleet I was in was a group of 23 sitting on top of Blue Federation's home station. They had 19 in local and refused to undock, even though we were only in Battlecruisers. I learned all I needed to know about RvB that night, it is a half finished addition to the game much like Faction Warfare. @ Ephemeron: I am talking about in game mechanics intended to level and better the game as a whole. You don't manufacture items or trade via personal choice, just as you don't willingly travel 20-30 jumps to get to your destination. It is in the game for you.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.03 01:09:00 - [3] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 01:13:44 Originally by: mkmin You forgot to put "crying little girl" on there, because that's what my interactions with you in-game have seen you do. I assure you, you aren't hot ****. Never claimed to be. Also, posting with a forum alt with no BC history may be even more pathetic then station spinning. But since you seem butthurt, I digress. I must have played my "Griefing" role well enough when I encountered your main in game.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.03 01:20:00 - [4] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 01:19:56 Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts Originally by: Eternum Praetorian I learned all I needed to know about RvB that night, it is a half finished addition to the game much like Faction Warfare. You are aware that RvB is 100% player organized and run and CCP had absolutely nothing to do with it, thus invalidating the use of the term 'addition' and any comparison to faction warfare, right? Just sayin... Nope, I did not. Linkage But now I do and I'm sure it probably seemed like a good idea at the time.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.03 01:45:00 - [5] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 01:48:02 Originally by: Gizznitt Malikite Realistically, what type of game mechanic would reward the semi-balanced fighting you desire? The only thing I can think of is if km's (or battle reports) started to have a value beyond bragging rights. And which of these many possible motives are conducive to your desired PvP setup? What type of mechanic would encourage this setup? I don't know... (puts on thinking cap) Fist person shooters seem to take care of this issue by setting up matches with even numbers of players. Imagine how much fun call of duty would be if the match was set up 11 vs 3? Who would want to play FPS like that? The only way you could achieve "Match" grade PVP in eve would be to modify the Fleet system considerably. For a moment let us disregard null sec blobs and large fleets. In order to achieve an even match you would need the following. 1. A limited possible number of DPS fleet members (lets say a squad 9 pilots minus the command position ). 2. A maximum amount of logistics spots for each gang (lets say 3) 3. One slot for command bonuses So now we would be looking at a maximum of 9 pilots, 3 logistics and one command. Something like this only works if the benefits of actually being in a fleet of 13 out weighs 20 unfleeted random shooting at you. The easiest fix is to tie remote repair to the 3 fleet positions just like gang links on a commandship. No fleet, no RR (or limited RR in terms of cycle time, mods or rep rate) . . . But then ofc you can have two fleets come at your one fleet amiright? Sure, but you have divided up the remote repair considerably. each set of nine DPS ships have 3 possible logistics ships repairing them divided up between two fleets (instead of 6). How might you discourage 2 vs 1 fleet blob love? I don't know I am just thinking off the hip. I do not expect to come up with some fool proof idea off the top of my head. Game modifications need months of consideration, balancing and and testing before implementation. All I am saying is that PVP mechanics built into the game, designed specifically to encourage "Match Grade PVP" would be something almost everyone would enjoy. To the point, dare I say it, expanding CCP's potential client base considerably.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.03 02:39:00 - [6] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 02:46:06 Originally by: Sillas Cov stuff That's fine. Undock next time then. 23 vs 19 is not that big of a difference when the enemy is in BC's inside of your own home system. Edit: Give vaseline to mkmin and says U mad bout somtin bra?
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.03 13:24:00 - [7] Originally by: Neamus Sun Tzu agrees... Don't move unless you see an advantage. Don't use your troops unless there is something to be gained. Don't fight unless the position is critical. -- Sun Tzu, AoW, Chapter 12 Got to love these imbeciles who think that they understand The Art Of War (and war in general) because they read the English translated version of a book they bought off Ebay. Respect... you get none.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.03 14:09:00 - [8] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 14:09:47 Originally by: ZenSun WoW ---> What you are asking is unrealistic and not practical at all, it will always be human nature to out-blob the opponent, no game mechanic can change this in a sandbox game without it becoming your regular MMO (in some respects). Yea, well I disagree. I think it *could* be possible if enough creative and intelligent people worked on it. But then ofc there are so many unimaginative conformists like yourself who simply say it's not possible, WOW is that way and move on.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.03 14:27:00 - [9] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 14:27:37 All you need to know about me is that I am someone who does *not* quote The Art Of War, by verse and chapter like it is the bible... on an internet forum belonging to a popular MMO Space pixels are serious business yo.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.03 14:40:00 - [10] Originally by: ZenSun More stuff They are smart enough to get your money

Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.03 14:50:00 - [11] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 14:51:43 I will also add that only fools think that things cannot be improved overtime. Anything can be improved upon with human effort and creativity, including EVE. However there will always be sheep that herd with the masses...so enjoy playing your "free and effortless game" along with the status quo that you are mindlessly supporting.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.03 15:35:00 - [12] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 15:39:25 Originally by: Zesoft Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 14:51:43 However there will always be sheep that herd with the masses...so enjoy playing your "free and effortless game" along with the status quo that you are mindlessly supporting. Different =/= Better. I won't deny that there's a sheeple mindset in broad human society (Hint: it's somewhere in the low end 1/3rd of the IQ bell curve :P ), but try not to seem too much like a socially clueless introvert by casting stones at the imaginary sheep herd. So clarify? Are you stating that in your opinion EVE has reached it's peak of awesomeness and thus cannot be improved upon at this point? That it can only be made different? What precisely are you trying to convey with regards to the subject matter of this thread? @ Vixisti most of the people I talk to in game are "Searching for fun" and that compels them to continue playing. Most people in game are in the process of "Looking For" and "Planning For" fun not so much "Having fun". That in itself can be a strong draw to the game play, but it does not mean that we should all leave it at that and not consider what could potentially be better alternatives... does it?
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:16:00 - [13] Originally by: Gimmy Rotten Try Factional Warfare I have, the Amarr Militia (forgot to mention that) and since I have experience with FW I can only assume that you were hitting the crackpipe before you hit the "Post Reply" button.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:39:00 - [14] Here Is An Idea: We have the fleet finder after all . . . Would it be hard to implement a "Wardec" section of the fleet finder for instance? One totally theoretical addition to it might be one where you have the option to join an "Arena" in the form of a fleet that would be at war with all other active "Warfleets" Fleets could vary in size, and even better the FC could specify the size of enemy fleets that they wish to engage. Something like 10, 20, 30+ designations that could be checked upon the fleets conception (like an advert) Such a system could also allow for solo setting which would allow 1v1 or 3v1 (whatever) PVP. Instant gratification. Arena quality PVP. Does not effect the market or ISK system of the game. Does not effect the sandbox outside of giving people some instant PVP gratification in Empire where most of the population currently resides. This is just 1 potential example mind you... One that could come from a pool of ideas complied by EVE's member base. One thing that is good about CCP is that if you make enough threadnoughts on a subject they tend to listen.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.04 18:53:00 - [15] Did you by any chance read the suggestion directly above your post?
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.04 23:46:00 - [16] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 04/03/2011 23:48:39 Hey look, it's another random forum alt talking **. Edit:** Your reading comprehension is abhorrent BTW. You missed everything that I posted and committed yourself to a flurry of pre-prepared, forum warrior twitch responses.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.05 19:44:00 - [17] No, but I have shot at more then enough offline WH POS with a small gang of 4-5 BS to know that you wasted a hell of allot of time AFK mining a large POS for what ultimately = 170M isk kill. I am sure that if you made your own thread about your glorious-epic-win KM, you will get mad respect from the EVE Online player base. By all means please do so, I will be more then happy to post in it when I see it.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.06 04:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Kreshin (no I'm not mad bro, just stating the obvious for those who can't see it for themselves.) And yet... you do seem a little mad bro.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.06 15:47:00 - [19] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 06/03/2011 15:55:20 @ Tres Farmer Your comments are simply not accurately reflecting what the vast majority of people are actually thinking in game. Two day old noobs enter EVE with a strong desire to PVP, but the lessons they immediately learn in game teach them that 1.)They will usually be outnumbered or 2.) If they are the ones with greater numbers they will be bored because no one will engage them. This changes their perspective and behavior patters in game, and leads to a snowballing effect that has brought us to a borderline ridiculous state of game play. If I Were To Build In The Sandbox, CCP Has Given Me Some Very Specific Guidelines Blue Prints that contain ME and PE. I need a specific list of minerals. I need a station and research time (and/or I need to acquire a BPC) I then need to build my item. I then need a ship large enough to transport it. I can also invent. If I Were To Trade In The Sandbox CCP Has Given Me Some Very Specific Guidelines M3 size for goods (packaged and unpackaged) Travel time. Autopilot. Slow Freighter class ships. Distance between star systems and stargate arrangements that encourage trade hubs (deliberate or not, it is present in the game) Buy/Sell orders and market timers. Without becoming a redundant wall of text, the same can be said for missions, sleepers, mining, plexes, contract trading, POS's, POS siege warfare. Literally EVERY ASPECT of EVE has very specific guidelines for players to adhere to. This promotes an optimal gaming experience inside of the sandbox environment for all players of all professions. But If It's Not Sov Based Warfare: All PVP gets is a fleet. That's all we get in terms of PVP game mechanics, a fleet that has no criteria or guidelines. We get wardecs that have no victor, loser, purpose, ISK gain or loss, or rhyme or reason of any kind for that matter. We get a Low Sec with so little incentives that only a tiny % of the gaming population wants to live there. That... or we get sov blobs. Regarding the "PVP fleet game mechanic", if you really think about it all it truly has is a squad position... that's it. No definite DPS, fast tackle or logistics positions. It only has spots that commanships need to be in order to run gang links. Beyond that there is NO In Game Mechanism that helps guide it intelligently within the sandbox environment. IF CCP let any other aspect of this game run with so little guidelines it would be both nonfunctional and self imploding. Much like the present state of PVP and blob warfare is currently. Now why is that?
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.06 19:29:00 - [20] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 06/03/2011 19:30:42 Originally by: Tres Farmer Now, why didn't you got that? You are talking like someone who currently resides in null sec, but since you are posting on your alt who can tell? I will just say that although people think that their epeen grows bigger in 0.0... the bottom line is that 90% of EVE population does not live there. Your account does not match my own experiences in game (unless we are talking about low SP 0.0 recruits) and I have allot of experience with nooblets whom are new to the game. But ofc who wants be objective and look at both sides of the coin when you can instead just be loud and appear to be universally correct in the eyes of your Cheetos-on-fingers-keyboard-pounding peers. Amiright?

Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.06 20:49:00 - [21] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 06/03/2011 20:54:24 Originally by: Ahz Farts in public What your suggesting is WAY to far out there to be implemented into EVE's existing programming. You might as well go make a brand-new MMO. ATM people just want some fixes to current in game mechanics and some better PVP encounters on a more regular basis. Originally by: Ahz Then there's no reason to fight except for the personal glory of it. How about fun? Good god some of you people, its a game and it's supposed to be as entertaining as possible so CCP can make as much money as possible. There is no "Glory" in internet spaceships unless your certifiably nuts. Ninja Edit: And on a final note Mr Ahz, if you were to go create an MMO like what you described I'd most definitely be a subscriber. As would most people here I gather . . . PM us when it's ready for beta testing.
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.07 01:37:00 - [22] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 07/03/2011 01:37:38 Actually no, not really. I'd much prefer a few more original, realistic and creative ideas be posted in this thread. I can play the troll the trolls mini-game with you later. I think that Ahz had a fantastic idea, but imo there is just no possible way that we could get there in any kind of reasonable/foreseeable timeframe. It would take too much money and recoding and CCP will simply never do that... . . . Do you forum trolls really think that there is no possible way that the PVP system can be improved upon? I get that epic forum alts like Tres Farmer are infused with Tiger Blood And Adonis DNA but seriously? No room for improvement Mr. Sheen? None at all? What precisely are you arguing? EVE's current state of immaculate PVP perfection?
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.07 02:59:00 - [23] But why does the pursuit of "Arena Quality PVP" have to be the same as an actual arena?
Eternum Praetorian True Creation The 0rphanage	Posted - 2011.03.08 13:05:00 - [24] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 08/03/2011 13:07:36 Originally by: Bumblefck I might suggest you try popping NPC haulers; unless you've already done this, Mr. Troll, I highly doubt you've done everything EVE has to offer The only person I am trolling is Bubmlefck, I am finding it amusing to completed disregard his posts and watch him continue to make stabs at me until I give him some kind recognition that he is making them. . . . Beyond that, I am not trolling anyone. If you hopped into a ship and talked to random people in game, you will find that 90% of all people whom you encounter (of all ages and careers) wishes that EVE had some improvement to it's current PVP system, it's incentives and/or it's fleet structure. The only reason why these forums do not reflect this trend, is because of the unending epeen measuring of "Internet Tough Guys" who choose to smash any idea that gives them an opportunity to look like hot ** inside of these troll dominated forums. Edit:** Waves @ Sraik Doubter
Eternum Praetorian True Creation	Posted - 2011.03.12 03:10:00 - [25] Revived Topic. Some of these ideas were good.

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